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PAID MY DUES: Why don’t you begin by telling us about your background and how you got started in music?

Therese: I got started in music when I was five years old. I started taking accordion lessons from my cousin, Sandy. I played the accordion for a real long time. My first public performance was when I sang "I Want to Go Back to My Little Grass Shack" for the third graders -- the girls who were standing in line to go to the bathroom -- near the kindergarten room where I was going to school at the time, Wengler School in Sharon, Pennsylvania. I was born in California, but grew up in Sharon, Pennsylvania the whole time. I played accordion all through school and played the saxophone starting in fourth grade. Played other instruments like the bassoon and baritone horn, cello, stuff like that through high school. Took a lot of music courses, played in the band and orchestra and sang in the choir. Then I went to music school, went to the University of Cincinnati, College--Conservatory of Music, and in 1974 I received a Bachelor of Music degree with a major in education, concentration in bassoon and a minor in piano. She said, tongue in cheek.

PMD: How do you feel about your music training? Do you think it was valuable?

Therese: I think the most valuable thing was being involved with it so much. I started public performing for real when I was twelve and that was real valuable in getting practical on-the-job training for dealing with audiences and that kind of thing I didn't answer your question. I think my formal education was real important. I just wish I had spent more time doing that instead of screwing around.

PMD: Do you want to talk a little bit more about the people who have influenced you in music and then about your place in women's music?

Therese: Okay. It seems that I have more limited sources for influence than anyone else I know. My first influence was Al Jolsen: the way he dealt with audiences and the way he did the performer number and the way he did the contact number. That's where (my) style came from I think. Then, more contemporary people have been . . . Phoebe Snow. I think she's been really influential as far as vocal style goes. Janice Ian has shown me the importance of words and Joni Mitchell has shown me the beauty of language. And I keep learning more about that all the tine. I keep trying to develop that more in my lyric writing. As far as my place in women's music goes, 1 feel like we have a responsibility to ourselves to do more than just write pretty and meaningful songs. We have to learn the skills of the business, like producing, engineering, and arranging, so that the music is interesting and grows. And then we have to learn promotion and distribution so our music makes an impact on the industry as a whole.

PMD: Do you want to try to give a definition of "women's music?"

Therese: Women's music is . . . let’s see. Damn. Music made by women that makes other women feel like they are strong human beings in their own right. How's that? We'll take that one for now.

PHD: Do you see yourself serving a political function on stage?

Therese: I think the music that I make is a political statement. I think the fact that I get up on straight stages is a real political statement. I think that I'm a strong figure to look at on that stage, and I think that's good.

PMD: Where do you play most often? College campuses, clubs, bars?

Therese: Right now I work one night a week at a winery in Cincinnati and it doesn't pay me very much but it's a real good audience/performer relationship. I also work in a horrible pizza place where they don't really care about music so I can sing anything I want and nobody notices. Concerts are my favorites, though. And Teresa and I will be going on tour in May. Teresa is my road manager and partner.

PMD: Let's talk about your new album, From Women Faces. What sort of material are you putting on it?

Therese: There are twelve songs on it. Actually two too many, they tell me. I wrote eight and collaborated with Natalie Waugh on one. Annie Dinerman ("Face the Music") wrote two and Betsy Lippitt wrote the last one. We think there are definite possibilities for crossover into commercial markets with it. We're very proud of it.

PMD: Could you describe the range of topics that your songs cover?

Therese: Sure. There's my sister's song ("Jennifer: Leah's Song") which is about my niece and my sister. There's one that speaks to mothers about letting their children go. There's one about my grandmother that talks about who she was and my involvement with her. There's one that's way off the wall from things that I usually write -- it's the last thing I wrote, the latest -- and that's called "Take Back the Guns" and that' a gun-control song. Annie's songs are "Never Leave Your Lover Alone Again," which is like a top forties hit, and her other one is "Moonflower" which is just a gorgeous song about an interaction that she had with a woman when she was younger. A beautiful, beautiful little song. And there's one called "Lou's Song" that's a personal kind of statement about who I am and what I do.

PMD: I especially like all of the songs that you do that deal with your family identity. I think that you're one of the few women who writes songs about the people in their families, and relationships with then. That's not dealt with by very many other women. It's an important part of women's music and the definition of who we are.

Therese: Yeah, I think that's real important.

PMD: Let's talk some more about your album. You produced it yourself didn’t you? How did you go about doing it and who worked on it with you?

Therese: Okay. Lou Anderson was the musical director and she also helped me right from the beginning of the production. Teresa Boykin was the associate in production. The engineers were Harry Urschel of Jewel Recording Studios in Cincinnati and Gary Griffin, who joined the Beach Boys in the middle of the production. All the musicians credits are on the inside of the record, but we did a count and there were thirteen women and nine men musicians and five women and no men making the decisions. For whatever that's worth in the universe.

PMD: So you feel that having men in both the production and music of the album doesn't interfere with women's music?

Therese: No, I don't think so. The single most important thing is that we are women making music about women, for women. I also understand the energy and rush you get working with all women, but that's a luxury we can't afford right now. And to me the purist approach is a luxury. I'd rather be working with all women -- who wouldn't? But more important is that my music gets out. I think I had to take another look at the men/wonen music thing because not all men are assholes. I've learned a lot from some of them, and I don't want to sever my contacts with those few.

PMD: Why did you make an album? Do you think it's a necessary thing for women involved in music to do?

Therese. First of all, I've already made one album. I made it in 1970. It was called Prophecy's Child, and it made me sound like a fourteen-year-old choir boy.

PMD: Is it available any place?

Therese: It's available from under my bed. My mother calls them collector's items. That (record) was entirely produced with my parents' money. I think it cost around a thousand dollars. I got a thousand printed and I still have some. All the songs on it either I wrote, I think two of the songs my friend Karen Fields wrote, and then we collaborated on a couple. That (record) was important; (it) was the only thing we knew to do to get my music out to anybody. I didn't even hear about feminism in 1970, didn't understand that at all. This (album), seven years later -- it's a marker in my life. I feel like when I have that product in my hand it's a testimonial saying what I have done for the past seven years. A growth marker. It's also important cause that's the only way anybody takes you seriously. I don't think you all would be talking to me now if I didn't have a record coming out.

PMD: I understand that's been true in the past. I hope that it becomes less true.

Therese: That would be good. But I also understand that if you have the hustle you can do anything you want. I think my music is pretty important. I couldn't continue to sing it and write it if I didn't think it was important. I want a lot of women to hear it. Making a record is a way to do that.

PMD: I understand the internal pressure to put your music down on record, to have that growth marker. But what about that external pressure -- which seems to be very prevalent in women's music right now -- to make records even if you aren't ready to. Can you talk about that for a minute?

Therese: Okay. I think that that kind of pressure is only productive. I mean it has forced me to look at my music again and again, to look at my politics again and again and again, to examine the whole spectrum of what I do for a living. I think it's a real growth-producing process. I think it's an extremely grown-up thing to do. Making a record is a very serious undertaking; I'm in debt up to my ass for the next I don't know how many years -- that's real serious. Yes, there is pressure, I think more women will (make records). I wish it were easier for us to get funds.

PMD: We'd like to have one of you songs printed in Paid My Dues. Which one would you like to see it be?

Therese: The song I'm going to have you do is called "Leah's Song." Jennifer is my niece. My January 1, 1977, first, hot-off the-presses niece. She was the first baby born in Liberty township in Ohio; they get her picture in the paper once a month, and the at the end of the year they have a spread or something, I don't know. Anyway, my sister, I have one sister and her name is Leah -- she's two-and-a-half years older than I am. We have always been extremely close in a way that we never knew we were close. She was the first person in my family that I told about my being gay, and she dealt with it fairly well. She still doesn't understand a lot; she's a lot straighter than I am. I think she’s the kind of woman that I want to understand what feminism is about and how important it is to their lives. So I wrote this song and the chorus is:

I want to see you unfold young woman
to be assured of your own clear woman's voice
to find the music that you need young woman
to hear your heart, and then, and only then,
to make your choice.

It’s like I want Jennifer to grow up knowing that she has alternatives; I think we all want that for our children. Then the song has a little background and tells where (Leah) comes from:

You have a husband as you wanted
He treats you good it seems
You have a house outside the city
You've realized your dreams.

That's true, she does. She went to a Catholic girls' school for four years exactly and graduated with honors, became a teacher for a certain amount of time. Then got married and lived in an apartment for exactly a year and then bought a house. Got two cars and a little stray dog ......

PMD: Sounds like out of a story.

Therese: Really. And there are a lot of women who do that. That's what she wanted to do and I'm glad that she has what she wants, and she seems to be a happy person. And her daughter is beautiful. Just a beautiful child. I fell in love with her; it was amazing. "Jennifer," the little part that goes in front of "Leah's Song," I just woke up one morning and there it was and I sang it at her baptism. I'm a godmother. And "Leah's Song," the stimulus for that came from just thinking about her. I figured out, finally, that I have to write about my own experience and she is the only other woman in the world who knows all my history and she has known me ever since I was a kid.

PMD: How did she respond to the song?

Therese: She cried, and she doesn't do that, and it was wonderful. I sang it for her and she started to cry and she patted me on the leg and hugged me and stuff and she was real pleased.